Thought leadership interview with Dana VanDen Heuvel

Dana VanDen Heuvel on thought leadership

In this thought leadership interview I speak to marketing consultant, author and speaker, Dana VanDen Heuvel.  Besides writing regularly on thought leadership topics, Dana is a widely recognized expert on blogging, podcasting, RSS, Internet communities and interactive marketing trends and best practices.  He speaks regularly on these topics at industry events around the world. You can read more about Dana’s views on Internet marketing and other marketing related topics at his blog  www.danavan.net 

Q1: Dana you have successfully positioning yourself as a thought leader in all things marketing.  Given your experience of positioning yourself in this space, what are your tips for aspiring thought leaders in other industries?

Thanks, Craig.  There are many thought leaders in marketing, and it seems, to those of us peering in, that they’ve all just arrived one day. In reality, this is something that I started working on in 2002 and have followed a very deliberate plan to sharpen my expertise and position myself as someone that (I hoped) is worth listening to in the market.  Here are a few things that have helped me along the way.

1.    Have a plan. I know, that sounds really basic and boring, but for the last several years I have set plans and goals in place for publishing, speaking and other presence opportunities that were based on a long list of things that I thought made up the right moves for an emerging thought leader.

2.    Speak. Speaking and presenting is the #1 tool for business development and thought leadership advancement among those considered thought leaders. There’s nothing like being on stage to elevate our position. I could not be where I am without speaking. It also helps that I love doing it!

3.    Keep an idea file.  I keep several files for article ideas, speaking ideas and blog post ideas that help me stay on top of publishing as consistently as possible.  Keep the ideas flowing and make sure that they’re useful to your audience and you’ll see yourself rise quickly.

4.    Participate.  Thought leaders are only thought leaders if they’ve amassed a following.  You need to be involved in a community of peers in order to be seen by anyone as someone who might be useful to them. 

Q 2:  What are some of the benefits you have experienced of being perceived as a thought leader? 

I used to be able to calculate the ratio of blog posts written to inbound leads for consulting or speaking that I received.  I loved those days!  While it’s a bit more challenging today, due in large part to the sheer volume of peers in the space, there are still many benefits to being considered a thought leader in any realm.

1.    Awareness and ease of business development.  Whether you call on someone out of the blue or they find you, your efforts in thought leadership make that first conversation a higher-level discussion based on how you can solve their problems vs. them trying to figure out just who you are.

2.    Thought leadership begets opportunity. If you’re considered a thought leader in any right, it’s easier to get articles placed, become a guest blogger or get in front of an audience for a speaking engagement. 

Q3:  You have written a lot in the past about thought leadership particularly in the B2B space, from your experience, what are some of the barriers that hold corporations back from becoming thought leaders and what would your advice be to them to overcome these?

You know, I find that it’s usually about a company’s culture and mindset about becoming a thought leader that either position it for success or keep it from getting off the ground. I see a few things holding companies back.

1.    Lack of belief in the thought leadership model. It’s a mindset and way of conducting business and you need to get that before you get to become a thought leader.

2.    It’s (usually) not an ‘overnight’ marketing tactic. If you want that, try direct mail.  Thought leadership takes a bit of time BUT is cumulative in effect. The more you do, the better it gets and if you’re in it for the long haul, thought leadership is going to be a  big win for you. 

Q4:  In building your thought leadership position, what has been your key differentiating factor and what has been most effective in getting this to market?  

Early on, I was the ‘B2B marketer from the trenches’ and that was a great position and differentiator.  As things have moved forward, I’ve diversified my differentiators, but I tend to do a few things consistently such as bringing in multiple disciplines in my writing which helps to showcase a depth of perspective not found with some others.  I’m an adjunct professor and love the academic side of things so I find that bringing in the academic perspective and melding it with the real-time and practical issues is something that can really help to set my ideas apart.

Q5:  You talk about the thought leadership marketing equation: Point of view leads to share of voice which leads to share of mind and ultimately share of market.  In your experience how do companies wanting to do this get there and how long does it typically take?

The equation looks simple, doesn’t it!  In reality, there are several steps in each bucket. For instance, share of voice includes a research phase, to determine their current share of voice, a planning phase to determine what they need to do in order to achieve the desired level, and an implementation phase to put the plan in play and get themselves into the marketplace. 

It all starts with a plan, in my opinion, and that plan can take anywhere from six months to six years.  Realistically, when you’re pursuing thought leadership, depending on your industry and niche, I normally tell people to give the endeavour a year of consistent effort to get some really solid, consistent and sustainable results.  That said, I’ve had clients where we went from somebody to perceived thought leader in about 60 days. In fact, that last case has one of the most sustainable thought leadership efforts of anyone I know.   

Q6:  You deliver a lot of interesting and informative content on your site.  What are the benefits of providing so much content and what’s your advice, in particular to companies, who seem to think that giving away too much content is a sin?

Content is the medium of exchange for thought leaders. Now, there are nuances to this that I won’t go into, but on the surface, the more content you have, the more currency you have in your marketplace.  If it’s you, with a content rich site sharing information that’s deemed useful by your audient (usefulness is key here), vs. a competitor with less content and fewer shared ideas and concepts, I’ve found the prospects like the person or organization that’s given them more currency and gives them a larger base perspective from which to make a decision.

For those averse to this, I don’t really have a lot of great advice.  I’ve beat my head against the wall with organizations who have asked me to come in to help them with that problem and it never ends well.  Thought leadership requires commitment and a corporate DNA that’s open to accepting the responsibility of thought leadership.  Sure, it can be learned and organizations can change, but it’s almost always an uphill battle.

Leadership guru Ken Blanchard talks about his views on thought leadership

Ken Blanchard is one of the world’s most influential figures on leadership and management.  He is a sought-after author, speaker and business consultant on the topic. 

His book “The One Minute Manager’ co-authored with Spencer Johnson has sold more than 13 million copies.  He has co-authored over 50 books including: Raving Fans, Gung Ho, Whale Done, Leading at a Higher Level, Know Can Do and The One Minute Entrepreneur among others.

His success as an author has seen him inducted into the Amazon Hall of Fame as one of the top 25 best-selling authors of all time.

While he has received many awards and honours for his contributions in the field of management, a little known fact is that he received The Thought Leadership award by Association of Learning Providers.

I interviewed him about his views on thought leadership and he had some great insights to share with some handy hints and tips for aspiring thought leaders.

1.    Ken, as a pre-eminent global thought leader on leadership and management what tips can you give other aspiring thought leaders?

The first thing you have to do is to determine your leadership point of view—your thoughts about leading and motivating people. Your leadership point of view relates to who you are as an individual. It grows out of who influenced you, what your purpose is, what your values are, and what people can expect from you. This is important because research has shown that the most effective leaders have a clear leadership point of view and they’re willing to share it with others. 

 2.    What are the key differentiators that have positioned you as one of the world’s most sought after experts on your topic?  

 I really don’t know. I think my popularity is more the result of a blessing I’ve received than a strategy I’ve implemented. I guess I’ll have to leave that question for others to answer.

 3.    Are there any defining moments that signaled when you broke through the ranks of the thousands of other ‘experts’ on management and leadership and became a ‘go to’ person and a thought leader in your space?

Without a doubt, William Morrow’s 1982 publication of the book I wrote with Spencer Johnson, The One Minute Manager, was the event that drew a lot of attention to me and the work I’d been doing in the leadership arena. The publication of several other bestsellers—Leadership and the One Minute Manager, Raving Fans, Gung Ho! and others—also helped to establish my name as a thought leader.

 4.    You have written and co-authored 45 books and have been inducted into the Amazon Hall of Fame as one of the top 25 best-selling authors of all time.  How important have these books been in positioning you as a thought leader?  And, what advice would you give to companies striving to become thought leaders in their sector where a book may not necessarily be appropriate?

Actually, I think I’ve co-authored more than 50 books at this point, but who’s counting? All kidding aside, as I said earlier, the books have probably been instrumental in establishing the Blanchard name. I want to emphasize here that with the exception of a couple of books, I do all my writing with coauthors. I’ve had the privilege to work with an amazing assortment of writers and they all deserve a lot of credit for their contributions.

As for how to become a thought leader in a sector where publishing a book is not feasible: I suggest that people use all the other forms of information technology available to get their message out—film, radio, blogs, television, newspapers, etc.  You can also be so good at what you do that your customers become your sales and marketing team. A good reputation and word-of-mouth advertising is more effective than most marketing campaigns. The bottom line, though, is that you have to get the word out somehow. You can have the greatest, most innovative thoughts in the world, but if nobody hears about them, they’re worth squat.

 5.    You have been quoted as saying:  “I absolutely believe in the power of tithing and giving back. My own experience about all the blessings I’ve had in my life is that the more I give away, the more that comes back. That is the way life works, and that is the way energy works.”  This seems to be the antithesis to the culture in a lot of businesses today where the focus is more on holding information, knowledge and insights close their chests.  Is this your experience, and if so, how do you believe companies can overcome this?

I think it’s sad that some people still don’t know that their role as leaders is to serve, not to be served. The truth is, if you want love, you have to give it away. If you want money, you have to give it away. If you want success, you have to give it away. We’ve found over the years that when you focus only on success, you will never reach significance, and that’s where the real results and satisfaction are. But if you focus on significance—generosity, service, and loving relationships—you’ll be amazed at how much success will come your way. Take Mother Teresa. She couldn’t have cared less about accumulating wealth, recognition, and status. Her whole life was focused on significance. And what happened? Success came her way. Her ministry received tremendous financial backing, she was recognized all over the world, and she was given the highest status wherever she went. She was the ultimate servant leader. If you focus on significance first, your emphasis will be on people. Through that emphasis, success and results will follow. 

 6.    In a world where content is readily available and easily accessible at the click of a mouse what will be the key things that differentiate companies/ products/ brands in the eyes of their target audiences over the next decade?

What sets companies/products/brands apart is delivering Legendary Service. This goes way beyond merely good customer service. It’s service that’s so outstanding that it inspires customers to tell stories about your company. The best companies in any industry—for example Southwest Airlines in the airline industry, Chick-fil-A in the quick service restaurant industry, and Nordstrom in retail—have empowered their employees to make decisions on a day-to-day basis that serve customers at the highest level. These frontline people are not bogged down at the bottom of a red-tape filled management hierarchy. They can use their brains and creativity to make customers happy. That gives energy to the whole organization, and it’s what creates the kind of legendary reputation that sets a company apart.

 7.    Are there any companies or campaigns that stand out for their thought leadership? 

I just mentioned one: Southwest Airlines. Herb Kelleher, the founder of Southwest, and Colleen Barrett, the president emeritus, had a clear vision of what they wanted their organization to be. They designed the company around three values: Warrior Spirit, Servant’s Heart, and Fun-Loving Attitude. Southwest is the only airline company that has made money year after year and it’s because they value their people as much as their profits, and they know how to treat people right.

Exclusive thought leadership hints and tips from Gary Bertwistle

      Gary Bertwistle is one of Australia’s foremost thought leaders on creativity. In 2001 Gary designed and built The Ideas Vault, Australia’s first ever dedicated creative space, designed specifically for the generation of better ideas. In 2004 Gary recorded and released an audio program called the Studio of the Mind, a 2 hour radio show that covers how creativity works, how to remove barriers to creative thinking, and techniques for unlocking ideas and imagination.

In early 2007 Gary self-published his first book entitled ‘The Keys to Creativity‘. The year finished on a high note with Gary being named 2007 Speaker of the Year for TEC (The Executive Connection), the world’s leading CEO membership organization.

Gary’s second book ‘Who Stole My Mojo?”, was released in June 2008.  In June 2009, ‘What Made You Think of That?‘ was published and Gary’s latest book, The Vibe, has just been published.

I interviewed him about his views on thought leadership.  It is long but only because he has some great insights to share and has been abundant with his advice in this regard.  This is what he had to say:

1.)    Gary, over time you have built a position as a thought leader on marketing and creative thinking.  What tips can you give to aspiring thought leaders out there?  

“My advice to aspiring thought leaders would be to develop your own content. Too many so called thought leaders are just parroting what they’ve read or heard, whereas a true thought leader espouses. To be a true thought leader you have to have original thoughts and this only comes from taking the time to be silent and to look, see, listen and really hear what’s going on around you to be able to form an opinion that can truly help take people and organisations forward. Thought leaders aren’t those who just repackage what everyone else has said. They must have an angle and a new approach, idea, concept or innovation, that can truly lead.

“The piece of advice I would give to any thought leader is that they need to design or develop their own style. There’s no point trying to be the next Matt Church or Craig Rispin. They need to be themselves and the essential part of being a thought leader is to decide who that really is. They may be mentored by others, benchmark others and even admire them. However they must be their own self. If appearing somewhere in order to sell their own ideas or thoughts and they leave the stage or board room, people must know that it was them and not just another person mimicking or parroting others. Most powerful thought leaders have their own style, their own thoughts, their own method of presentation and their own personality and drivers.

“My last piece of advice is something that I have learnt in the last 5 years, particularly since I have done so much writing, is to disconnect. Thought leaders MUST disconnect from the real world, technology and noise, in order to fully observe and hear. Thought leaders aren’t the guys rushing through an airport with a crackberry locked to their ear trying to push through crowds to dive into the back of a taxi. Thought leaders are the guys who have got their crackberry in their back pocket and are slowly meandering through the airport, listening, watching, thinking, pondering and dreaming about “what if”? Thought leaders take the time to disconnect and think to themselves “imagine if”! 

2.)    You have written numeous books, how have these helped position you as a thought leader in your field and what advice would you give to companies striving to become thought leaders where books may not necessarily be appropriate?

“Having now written 5 books and in the process of mapping the 6th, I would say that books lend credibility to thought leaders. Once you publish your thoughts you’re putting them into the marketplace for all to be reviewed.

“It’s all very well saying it but when it’s put in writing it’s there for prosperity for evermore.  Having your perspective in writing can lend an enormous amount of credibility to you as a leader, speaker, author or entrepreneur. For whatever reason, books seem to be business cards on steroids. However, from my experience it’s the second and third book where you truly get credibility. The first book is nice, but you join the masses. Thought leaders for me are the people who over a period of time have amassed enough thoughts and their own point of view to be able to land that thinking to a number of publications.

In today’s world books are not the only tool that business or leaders can use. Many thought leaders are using social media particularly well through blogs, tweets, podcasts and vidcasts. The book is purely the tool to help you get the word out.

“Organisations and business leaders can do just as good a job by truly investing in original thinking and using all the tools outlined above as the methods to share your thoughts as a leader. Blogs, tweets, Facebook, LinkedIn, DIGG, podcasts, vidcasts are all fine but if you’re not sharing innovative thinking that helps me as the follower to think differently or be better at whatever it is that I do, then you fail to add value and all those things are a waste of space. Too many companies are loading up with podcasts and blogs, which have no value and are a waste of time.”

3.)  A lot of what you advocate centres around stimulating and sharing ideas but there are plenty of companies out there who don’t share their knowledge or insights with their target publics.  What advice would you give them?

“In my last book The Vibe, I outlined one of the greatest trends that’s happening in the world right now and is becoming even more prevalent since the book was published. Today’s brands need to be generous.

“Generosity is a key driver for any thought leader or organisation wanting to lead.  You can’t just sell a service or a product. You have to go above and beyond that and provide the extras.

“Provide the overs. The overs come in the form of information, advanced notice, freebies, alliances, promotion or insights. If you aren’t sharing your knowledge or insights with your target audience then you run the risk of leaving yourself open to attack from a competitor who does. Today it’s an expectation from your target audience. The buyer of any product or service expects the extras.

“One of the greatest exponents anywhere in the world right now is Apple. They have free tutorials, free advice, free public problem solving, free applications, free upgrades, free business shopping, specialists and so the list goes on. I only buy a computer once every 12 to 24 months, and in the meantime they super-serve me and make me the loyalist of Apple tribe members by constantly being generous with their information, time, insight and products. Which is why they have just been voted the most admired companies in the world yet again.” 

4.)    In the preamble to your latest book “The Vibe” you mention that only a few brands make an authentic connection with their customers.  What are the key things companies should be doing in order to make that connection?

“In order to make an authentic connection with your customers you must do two things. First thing is to create a true perception of what separates you from everybody else. Today it’s not good enough for me to know you and your name or what you do or how you do it. I need to know why I should buy from you and not from somebody else. I must have a succinct perception in my mind that separates you from your competitors and makes me move from knowing you to wanting to do business with you. Do this well and once I’ve done business with you I will want to stay with you even if somebody does it quicker, faster or cheaper.

“The second part of the question centres around the authenticity of the story. Today people aren’t just buying products, they’re buying into the story. They’re buying into why you do what you do.

“Too many business websites have their first two pages outlining what they do and how they do it. Put your hand over their logo and it’s no different to their competitors. The people who truly resonate, get the first call, build the perception and build true loyalty with their customers and clients, will be the ones who have told their story. Why the company was set up, why you do what you do, why you have the sorts of people around you, working for you, and why you think what you do can change, help or benefit the organisations you work with.

“Once you’ve worked out the why you exist then outline: 1. Why we should do business with you; 2. How you do what you do; 3. What you do. People are buying stories and too few people tell the story let alone even know what their story is.”

5.)    What will companies need to do from a marketing/communications perspective to differentiate themselves from the competition over the next decade?

“In the next decade two things will need to happen for companies to truly take advantage of their marketing communication. Firstly you need to get the fundamentals right, by clarifying who you are targeting as a customer or client, and what you do (that is what category you occupy). This is very important.

“Next, what perception do you want to create? Concentrated into one single concept or word that summarises why you are different from your competitors.

“Then thirdly work how you will infiltrate my world in order to alert me to this information. Unfortunately too many organisations are skipping the fundamentals and get caught up in how to spend money and how to communicate the message without working out what their message is. They have no story, they have no fundamentals taken care of. All they have is a logo on an invoice so people know who to pay. This is not having a brand. A brand only happens when you have told your story and built your perception.

“The second thing you need to happen is that as people’s buying, lifestyle and communication habits change, brands will need to be on top of this. The old saying “if you always do what you’ve always done, you always get what you always got” summarises it well, but today what you’ve always done may not be good enough.

“Brands in every size, in every industry, in every category need to be aware of the changing face of brand where stories, authenticity, being generous, building a tribe and being more than a brand are currently influencing the way people make buying decisions. As a thought leader this is your bread and butter because you are the person who is slowing down, thinking, pondering and imagining “what if?” You are the person will observe these changes to bring them to the attention of your followers.”  

6.)    Which individuals or companies do you look up to as thought leaders in their industry and why? 

“Unquestionably marketing and brand guru Seth Godin who wrote Purple Cow, All Marketers Are Liars, The Dip, Meatball Sundae and so on, is a thought leader.

“In terms of companies, Apple are unquestionably a brilliant organisation with ticking all the boxes I’ve outlined so far. But that organisation is only as good as their leader and there is no question that Steve Jobs is a thought leader in not only in computers but also in the entertainment and animated film industry.

“Another company that I greatly admire who I think are doing it very very well are the Nespresso Coffee people. They’ve quickly built a brand new category and established a foothold in an area that previously didn’t exist, and they’ve built a very cool, very successful and very funky brand that has longevity.

“These thought leaders are doing it in a way that makes it very difficult to penetrate their category. All things that I’ve talked about above have been done extraordinarily well by Apple and Nespresso.

“And finally, I know it’s a little out of left field but someone else I admire as a thought leader is Fashion designer Karl Lagerfeld. He’s been on the top of his game for many years now, having been the creative genius behind Chanel, Fendi, and now his own brand. He’s just gone back to Chanel. He has amazing philosophies and is unquestionably a thought leader in his industry. He is admired by many of the most creative people in the world, and I truly think he is someone who blazes his own trail regardless of what anybody else thinks.”

Howard Gardner on thought leadership

Howard Gardner is the John H. and Elisabeth A.Hobbs Professor of Cognition and Education at the Harvard Graduate School of Education.  He also holds positions as Adjunct Professor of Psychology at Harvard University and Senior Director of
Harvard Project Zero. Among numerous honors, Gardner received a MacArthur Prize Fellowship in 1981. He has received honorary degrees from 26 colleges and universities. In 2005 and again in 2008, he was selected by Foreign Policy and Prospect magazines as one of the 100 most influential public intellectuals in the world. The author of 25 books translated into 28 languages, and several hundred articles, Gardner is best known in educational circles for his theory of multiple intelligences, a critique of the notion that there exists but a single human intelligence that can be adequately assessed by standard psychometric instruments.

Gardner will be doing a multiple city tour of Australia in May 2011.

1.    Howard, in the 1990s you investigated professional ethics, or what you and your colleagues termed ‘good work’.  Can you explain what ‘good work’ means for companies today?

“Colleagues and I are still investigating good work. As we now define it, GoodWork is Excellent technically; personally Engaging and meaningful; and carried out in an Ethical manner. We speak of the three Es, and of an intertwined ENA. As psychologists, our work focuses on the individual, but clearly the good work analysis can be extended to corporations as well. Also, when it comes to the treatment of work, I would add a fourth E—that individuals are treated equitably, and that the income and privilege ratio is not skewed too much in favor of senior management.

“For more information see www.goodworktoolkit.org and www.goodworkproject.org”

2.    You have worked with many noted and pre-eminent psychologists, neurologists and others, what do you think has made some of them more successful than others in building a public profile and becoming known as a thought leader in their market?

“Two different routes:

1. The outstanding quality of work, I would cite my close colleague Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, and his ground breaking work on ‘flow’ or neuroscientist Giacomo Rizzolati, who discovered ‘mirror neurons’
2. The capacity to speak and write for a popular audience, and the willingness to go on television, travel, speak to general audiences, get a joke writer, hair stylist, etc. I’ll let you come up with examples. Let me simply say that some scholars who achieve popular acclaim, like paleontologists Stephen Jay Gould or astronomer Carl Sagan, were also great scholars.”

3.     You have written numerous papers and books.  Given your experience, what tips can you give aspiring thought leaders in other industries about what it takes to be recognised as a thought leader?

“Even if you begin as an indirect leader, writing for and addressing primarily scholarly audiences, it is crucial to pay attention to reactions. I have in mind both appropriate criticism of your scholarship AND suggestions about how better to present your materials. My presentations have changed as much, because of the reactions of popular audiences (including my own children) as they have been affected by scholarly colleagues who would never go on television or address a rotary club.

“I would add that there are certain things that I would not do, even if they were to give me more visibility. One of them is to appear on Fox television, which I do not consider to be a worthy outlet.”

4.    In building your thought leadership position around multiple intelligences, what has been your key differentiating factor/s and has there been one stand out tactic that has helped you achieve this?  

“While I never anticipated it, the use of the word ‘intelligence’; has been crucial. If I had spoken and written about seven or eight talents, gifts, faculties, my work would not have attracted comparable attention.

“Also, I have found it useful to employ a simple analogy: The standard solitary view of intelligence is like a single all purpose computer, which can work well or poorly; the multiple intelligence view posits a set of relatively independent computers—so, for example, one person might have a good music computer and a poor spatial computer or vice versa, while a second person might have a strong linguistic computer and a poor interpersonal computer, or vice versa,

“Over twenty-five years, I have been able both to deepen my own analysis of this work, and to present it in ways that are easy to understand while not being misleading. Every year I think that I improve both my understanding and my ability to communicate effectively—at least I hope so!”

5.    What’s your view on sharing content and ideas and from your experience, how far should a thought leader go in sharing this information?

“I don’t really understand this question. I don’t see why anyone should withhold information, so long as they are confident that what they are saying has some validity.

“When it comes to trade secrets, I suppose that is a different kind of problem. Ideas and thoughts are free and should be treated as such.”

6.    How would you define thought leadership?

“Thought leaders are individuals who develop ideas that have substance and validity and have some success in communicating these ideas to a relevant wider public. Some thought leaders do it primarily through their writings—see the Csikszentmihalyi and Rizzolati examples above—and others do it through a combination of writing, speaking, blogging, tweeting, etc.”

David Meerman Scott on thought leadership

David Meerman Scott  is one of the pre-eminent thought leaders on PR and marketing.  For those who are in the marketing or PR industry I can highly recommend his book “The New Rules of PR and Marketing”.  I asked him six questions about his views on thought leadership and its role in building a brand.  See what he had to say and the thought leadership case studies he nominates at the end: 

1.      David, when you were working for NewsEdge you ignored the advice of your PR and ad agency, in effect you ‘broke the old rules’ by publishing lots of free content online that resulted in hundreds of sales.  Could you explain the link between thought leadership and sales?

 “The Web gives everyone—B2B companies, consumer brands, consultants, nonprofits, and even rock bands, churches, and colleges—a tremendous opportunity to reach people and engage them in new and different ways.

“When you build content especially for your audience, you build a relationship with people before you’ve even met them. When it’s obvious that you understand your buyers and their problems, it jars your visitors into paying attention.

“You transform your marketing from mere product-specific, ego-centric gobbledygook that only you understand and care about into valuable information people are eager to consume and that they use to make the choice to do business with your organization. Instead of creating jargon-filled, hype-based advertising, you can create the kind of online content that your buyers naturally gravitate to—if you take the time to listen to them discuss the problems that you can help them solve. Then you’ll be able to use their words, not your own. You’ll speak in the language of your buyer, not the language of your founder, CEO, product manager, or PR agency staffer. You’ll help your marketing get real.”

2.    You have written 5 books which have clearly driven a large part

of positioning yourself as a thought leader in your field but what advice would you give to companies striving to become thought leaders where books may not necessarily be appropriate?

“Now we can earn attention by creating something interesting and valuable (call it thought leadership if you like) and then publishing it online for free: a YouTube video, a blog, a research report, photos, a Twitter stream, an e-book, a Facebook page. There are hundreds of different outlets for valuable information.”

3.    Does content alone make a thought leader?

“The problem is that most organizations create content about their stupid products. What people need to realize is that nobody cares about your products (except you).  What people do care about are themselves and ways to solve their problems.

“People also like to be entertained and to share in something remarkable. In order to have people talk about you and your ideas, you must resist the urge to hype your products and services. And you must resist the urge to “control the message.” Create something interesting that will be talked about online.”

4.    Do you have any advice for companies who don’t share content and

hold their knowledge and insights close their chests?

“It all comes down to the goals. For decades, marketers have had a goal of collecting names (via registration forms) so they can then sell and market to those people. You are measured on the number of forms submitted. 

“But I think for many people a better goal is to spread your ideas. How many people can your reach? A million? Ten million? You can measure how many people have downloaded your stuff. How many bloggers are talking about you.

“When you lose control of your marketing by opening up and not requiring a registration, as many as fifty times the number of people will download it compared to the form requirement.

“This is a difficult one for people to make the leap to do, but believe me, it works.”

5.    In a world where content is readily available and easily

accessible at the click of a mouse what will be the key things that differentiate companies/ products/ brands in the eyes of their target audiences over the next decade?

“My most important aspect of creating information is to throw away your own ego and instead create content, what I call “buyer personas.”

“I think “buyer personas” are the king of marketing and a focus on buyer personas allows you to create the content. A buyer persona represents a distinct group of potential customers, an archetypal person whom you want your marketing to reach. Targeting your work to buyer personas prevents you from sitting on your butt in your comfortable office just making stuff up about you products, which is the cause of most ineffective marketing.

“Incidentally, my use of the word “buyer” applies to any organization’s target customers. A politician’s buyer personas include voters, supporters, and contributors; universities’ buyer personas include prospective students and their parents; a tennis club’s buyer personas are potential members; and nonprofits’ buyer personas include corporate and individual donors. Go ahead and substitute, however, you refer to your potential customers in the phrase “buyer persona,” but do keep your focus on this concept. It is critical for success online.”

6.    What companies or campaigns stand out for you as thought

leadership best practice? 

How Lisa Genova used social media to turn a self-published book into a NY Times bestseller http://www.webinknow.com/2009/01/how-lisa-genova-used-social-media-to-turn-a-self-published-book-into-a-ny-times-bestseller.html

Fun with Sharpies

http://www.webinknow.com/2009/01/fun-with-sharpies.html

Film producer builds pre-release buzz by making soundtrack available for free download http://www.webinknow.com/2009/01/film-producer-builds-pre-release-buzz-by-making-soundtrack-available-for-free-download.html

CENTURY 21 moves TV ad spend to online: Bev Thorne, CMO, tell us why http://www.webinknow.com/2009/01/century-21-moves-tv-ad-spend-to-online-bev-thorne-cmo-tell-us-why.html

How an active Facebook group drove 15,000 people to the Singapore Tattoo Show http://www.webinknow.com/2009/01/how-an-active-facebook-group-drove-15000-people-to-the-singapore-tattoo-show.html

Persona focused Web site leads to 4x conversions for RightNow Technologies http://www.webinknow.com/2008/12/persona-focused-web-site-leads-to-4x-conversions-for-rightnow-technologies.html

New marketing at work: BitDefender and the hip new Malware City site reach internet security geeks http://www.webinknow.com/2008/11/new-marketing-at-work-bitdefender-and-the-hip-new-malware-city-site-reach-internet-security-geeks.html

Bernard Salt’s tips on what it takes to become a thought leader

Bernard Salt is Australia’s pre-eminent thought leader on consumer and demographic trends and represents KPMG at conferences around the globe to share his insights.

Here he shares his views on what it takes to become a thought leader and some valuable tips on how to get there.  Even though I have researched thought leadership for years and have written a book on it, Brand Stand: seven steps to thought leadership, I found some of Bernard’s insights very illuminating and I hope you do too.

1.   Bernard, you have successfully positioned yourself as a thought leader on Australian consumer culture and demographic trends.  Given your experience, what tips can you give aspiring thought leaders in other industries? 

“You must believe in yourself when others don’t, when there is no reward, no recognition, when no-one wants to interview you or pay for your views.  And you must do it with good humour year after year.  And then, one day, you break through and all the dissenters and critics and naysayers just melt away.  It’s a test of endurance, of personal belief and of courage.  Some might say it’s also a test of foolishness.  There are no guarantees.  You might just be deluded into thinking that your views are worthy of a national audience.” 

2.    Please describe some of the personal and KPMG brand benefits you have accrued as a result of becoming a thought leader in your field?   

“I am in spaces and meetings that KPMG would not normally get into.  I can cut through into relationships where an auditor or tax expert cannot.  I offer a left field bridge to critical relationships.  And because I am in these meetings with business and political leaders at the highest level i am able to offer advice as to who to talk to about different issues.  I’m act like a traffic cop.” 

3.   In building your thought leadership position, what has been your key differentiating factor/s and has there been one stand out tactic that has helped you achieve this?   

“No point being a thought leader unless you can pitch your ideas.  That means you need the skill of presenting.  Not just a good presenter but an outstanding communicator. During the 1990s i wrote reports (like thousands of other consultants) but this is not what business wants.  What business wants is a compelling case pitched verbally with passion and with direction.  Hone your speaking and presentation skills.  And then hone again.  Watch good speakers and presenters.  Watch stand up comedians, they are brilliant at controlling an audience.   Get to the point, speak passionately, use words well (you must be articulate), and connect with your audience.  And when you think you are good enough in that skill area go out and learn some more because you are never good enough at speaking, pitching and presenting.  And don’t be precious about pitching saying oh but I haven’t prepared or I haven’t got my notes.  If you are so damned good you can pitch your ideas with 10 seconds notice. “

4.   Someone once said it takes 15 years to achieve overnight success – what has the journey been like from being one of a host of commentators battling to gain share of voice to someone who is sought after for his views in your space? 

“From my first public quote (1989) to entree to the speaking circuit (2001) is 12 years.  I started my column in 2003.  There is no start point.  I have been gearing to what I do now for 35 years, I just didn’t know that’s where I was headed at 15.  And yet looking back it’s always where I was headed.  I get lots of people saying they want to do what I do.  And it’s admirable that they have the sense to ask straight up how to get there and how to do it.  Saves a lot of stuffing about.  But I can tell from a 2 minute phone call they haven’t got it.  Other people, I think they could do it if they wanted to but many don’t want it.  You have to want it.  You have to take hits.  You have to be the last person standing when all other pretenders have melted away. “

5.       You deliver a lot of interesting and informative content on your site http://www.bernardsalt.com.au/  and you have written numerous books covering a range of topics.  What are the benefits of providing so much content and what’s your advice, in particular to companies who seem to think that giving away too much content will reveal too much to the competition? 

“This is a good question.  There are a lot of people who I am aware copy my material, style and approach (without attribution–there is no protection against intellectual theft).  But the way i figure it is that it’s my job to remain intellectually creative to such a degree that pretenders are continually left with the option but to copy.  The only people who are paranoid about giving away material are people who do not have faith that they are creatively superior to those who would copy them.  Copy away.  I’ll just think up other stuff.  It keeps me sharp.”

6.   What, do you believe, are some of the barriers that hold corporations back from becoming thought leaders and what would your advice be to them to overcome these? 

“Corporations need to be patient with thought leaders.  And commercial organisations are notoriously impatient.  I was able to deliver commercial value as well as evolve into thought leadership.  Not an easy balance.  Partly the reason is that thought leaders get to a point where they believe they can act more freely and successfully without the organisation.  I always thought I could go further with a global commercial partner than without.  And I was right.  I speak across the globe today courtesy of KPMG International.  I couldn’t have done that by myself. “

Interview on thought leadership with PR practitioner Craig Pearce

Craig Pearce

This is the first in what will be a series of interviews with thought leaders from around the globe and from different walks of life and industries.

In this one I ask five thought leadership related questions of Craig Pearce, a PR practitioner who has an interesting blog on all things PR.  You can visit his blog at  http://craigpearce.info/

1.      Craig you are in the process, and a successful one at that, of positioning yourself as a thought leader in the PR industry – are there some tips you can give to aspiring thought leaders in other industries?

I am not so convinced I am in the process of positioning myself as a thought leader for one main reason: I think it is rare for me to put forward original thinking. Most of my discussions on public relations and marketing – my area of, um, expertise… – are based on ideas that have been promulgated by academics like James Grunig or that I have learnt off my peers.

There are occasions, certainly, where I have articulated notions that you don’t seem to hear too much of, such as when I wrote that marketing should report to public relations, social media belongs to public relations and PR is not media relations. But that might be more to do with one of the attributes that I do believe characterises thought leaders: bravery.

There are some that might say this is more like stupidity, or career suicide, but after a year in which I was retrenched and felt forced, to a large degree, to enhance awareness of my skills and knowledge, I have no regrets.

But you need to have some sort of point of difference. It doesn’t have to be huge, but there needs to be a point of view you are putting forward. In the best case scenario, this point of view adds value to those who you want to interact with or position yourself favourably with.

An inherent dimension of learning off others is that it may well be that even if your stakeholders recognise you are no genius, if you are making the effort to reflect on original thinking or issues, and occasionally shine a perceptive light on this thinking or issue, maybe that’s enough.

Certainly, there are lots of watchers and critics in this world: those of us that are actually contributing, or going beyond the bounds of what is absolutely necessary are in the minority. Because of that, we’re of some value.

For a thought leader to be positioned as a thought leader they need to engage in two essential activities: think and articulate that thinking.

Whilst I don’t claim to be an intellectual or a great original thinker, I do at least put the grunt in. The posts on my Public relations and managing reputation blog are not something I quickly reel off. It takes a considerable amount of time to get them to a point where I am (relatively) happy with them. It is not a walk in the park.

A third stream to this is going to the trouble of bringing your thinking to people’s attention. In the context of a blog, this includes SEO and using networks like Twitter, LinkedIn etc.

I think having a problem solving, aspirational attitude and/or approach is a good one to have. Being fixated with the negative is all too easy. I leave that to the media. Another dimension of attitude (and the bravery mentioned earlier) is that it is good to disagree with others, it is good to challenge the orthodoxy and taken-as-read assumptions, which are all too often arrived at in a lazy, undisciplined manner.

This will not always make you friends, but I have plenty of friends. And I don’t expect them to agree with me all the time, either.

One approach to thought leadership is looking at it from a strategic, or SWOT-centric perspective. Look at the information/topics out there and the approaches existing thought leaders are taking. Then a ‘strategic approach’ can be taken to the generation of a thought leadership platform or program.

And there is nothing wrong with this, but it does sound a bit contrived, doesn’t it? If the platform is not sincere, if it doesn’t add value, then it won’t get cut through. I don’t think the importance of passion to all this can be underestimated.

2.      What do perceive as the key benefits of a thought leadership position for an individual? 

Creating that point of difference between yourself and all the other hens in the chook yard is the main one.

What does that mean? Career opportunities, helping your organisation stand out from the crowd to win new and bigger business, enhanced self-esteem and peer recognition are some benefits.

The snowball effect of learning even more from those wiser than you is another positive, as is the constant challenge you feel in needing to come up with new topics. This brings with it a sense of ‘edge’ that I enjoy.

3.      In a previous life you were heavily immersed in the corporate world.  What are some of the barriers that stand in the way of corporations becoming thought leaders and what would your advice be to overcome these?

I think of the world’s leading public relations academic, Professor James Grunig, and his notions of two-way symmetrical communication in this context. Organisations, to be effective in their ‘management’ of stakeholder relationships need to recognise that they may need to change to meet stakeholder needs and wants. And they may need to give their stakeholders information they want if they are to satisfy them.

Essentially, organisations should open themselves up more, share their expertise and not be so control-centred. They need to realise that there are profoundly important issues at play here, including the survival of the planet and the future of the human race.

Corporates rule the world, not governments, and most of them should be taking a much broader socially-centric (not shareholder-centric) view of the world and behaving in this manner, too. Public relations can help them do this.

Until they get real in this context their thought leadership is all about product and financial bottom lines. Yes, this pays our bills as PR folk but it doesn’t do much for the soul.

4.      What is the key differentiating factor between a thought leader and others in their industry?  

Well, one key differentiating factor is that they care about what they are talking about. In fact, they are probably passionate about it. I certainly am in my field.

If you are passionate and you are constantly making a contribution, I think you can be forgiven a lot. You are putting yourself at risk by challenging orthodoxies (and if you don’t ever challenge orthodoxies then I don’t think you are a thought leader). It is hard to pull that off without being passionate about it. You might get away with it for a while, but people will see through you in the end.

Not only are thought leaders passionate about their topic, they are often passionate about helping others, whether it is their peers, customers, the community etc

5.      Thought leadership and innovation – do the two necessarily go hand in hand?

The easy answer is yes, but I don’t think that is necessarily the case.

As I implied earlier, the distillation and/or crystallisation of ideas/thoughts into a form that is useful for stakeholders is an important criteria that I don’t think should be underestimated.

Innovation – first and/or best of species – certainly helps kick thought leadership along, but it’s not the be-all and end-all. Customisation of this innovation in a relevant way to stakeholders is also important.